Corrigan, a New York Times bestselling author, gives her Brief But Spectacular take on the power of words. The Big Short, Moneyball, Liars Poker, these stories stand for whole industries because Michael Lewis puts just the right protagonist in the center. That sounds really right to me. Kelly Corrigan:I mean, thats where it is. They thrill, and confound, and circle, and overflow, and disappear, because its like this, having a life.. Kate Bowler:Well, the quote that really resonated with me is when you said, They are moving onward, not away from you, but with you. Kate Bowler:Thanks so much for doing this. My mom called me maybe three months after my dad died. I mean, its a little bit like, Just keep saying yes. You know, When in doubt, say Sure, Ill do that, just to see what happens next, just to see who you might meet. I went into this tiny bathroom in Baltimore in our office building, and just cried my eyes out, and it wasnt even because she died. RELATED LINKS Try this episode's happiness practice: 36 Questions for Increasing Closeness Read Kelly Corrigan's new book, Tell Me More Transcript Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? I mean, its a little bit like, Just keep saying yes. You know, When in doubt, say Sure, Ill do that, just to see what happens next, just to see who you might meet. Kate Bowler:Well, your book has such a wonderful collection of phrases around essays, stuff like Tell me more, and you write about incredible things people can say when theyre figuring out the road ahead. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. You start with, Its like this.. Michael Murray on the Social Science of Faith Kelly Corrigan Wonders. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Its the only way to keep the last bit of sanity. She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. You also realized there was incredible parenting magic in the phrase, Tell me more. So, what is this witchcraft you speak of? Go get mixed up in something. Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. Despair defies description. So now if a family member is being difficult or misbehaving, we have established ground rules, So and so is family and we dont sell family! The words we speak, and the words spoken over us. I mean, that was my big experience of your book. Theres a whole world out there happening, and you can step into all kinds of things, and you dont need to know why youre leaving the house. Kelly and Kate Bowler dive into that phrase so often offered up to explain bad stuff: "everything happens for a reason." Kate is a divinity professor at Duke University and the bestselling author of three books. The idea that any day could be this huge day, I dont know, that really gets me out of bed, you know? Now, eleven years post-cancer, Im still learning to show up and be of use in my life, my marriage, my family and my work for the display of His splendor. But first, we need you to sign in to PBS using one of the services below. He was saddled with depression and anxiety, which led to his trying to make himself feel better and reduce the noise in his head. This beautiful eulogy helps to paint the full picture of Ryland: a unique combination of funny, stubborn, difficult and smart. And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. I hope you continue sharing your thoughts and joining in the conversation! You can follow the conversation with Kelly on Instagram @kellycorrigan. For our weekly dose of wonder, NPR learns about glorious sounds chicken make at a very important moment in their . She has been called the voice of her generation and the poet laureate of the ordinary, and she is the most perfect person to talk to to kick us off because her lovely new book is called Tell Me More, and Tell me more is one of those phrases she uses, phrases that she writes about that help guide her through relationships, and parenting, and grief. Kelly Corrigan:And I should not lose my mind over a shirt I bought on final sale section that didnt fit even though I tried to pull it over myself, and then it got stuck on me, and I had to cut it off with scissors. I even use it at the end of lectures like, Hey, this is the end of the 19th century. Hosted by four-time New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan, the show dives deep into each guest's life to pull out poignant lessons they hope others can use to find their own calling. Yeah. This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged. Thank you for adding to the number of not-normal, cry-at-the-drop-of-a-hat people in the world. Kate is a young mother, writer and professor who, at age 35, was suddenly diagnosed with Stage IV cancer. Kareem means generous. Kate Bowler:You put in a strong argument, if I may say it like that, for just being close to one another. Thats where its at. Kelly Corrigan:She cant wear half her clothes because she cant zip them by herself. Its a sin, its hell. Kelly Corrigan:I never came up with any combination that came close to the feeling. Copyright 2023 Apple Inc. All rights reserved. I love it that it gives up perfectionism, and it just says, Hey, whats possible today?. Make the magic happen. Kate Bowler:I guess Ill see you soon. Its completely random. Ask anyone who has participated in a moment of silence. Kelly Corrigan:Have you ever heard that potted plant theory? And she said, Kelly, Im going to try to do the Uber to this wedding, and I was wondering if you can request a woman, and I said, No you cant, but you can trust it. Kelly Corrigan:They hate it. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. I was wondering if you could tell me about that. Today, Im speaking with New York Times bestselling author, Kelly Corrigan. Kelly Corrigan:My instinct is to fix, cause I feel Im almost sure I can. I didnt engage with her. This interview is perfection. Shes not going to their wedding, shes not going to pick out wedding dresses with them. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, its so funny. They thrill, and confound, and circle, and overflow, and disappear, because its like this, having a life.. We have a lot to learn from you. Maybe I dont have to be good, but I can try to be least a little better then Ive been so far., Riham:Our family motto is Allah Kareem. Kate Bowler:Yeah. I was so mad that I shook the cage a bit, that hamster eating its sibling. We had several hamsters in one cage, and they can be cannibalistic, and one morning a hamster was missing, and another hamster had a suspiciously large tummy. Its cancer inflammatory breast cancer, with a twenty percent chance of living to five years. You understand what you did wrong., Kelly Corrigan:So to me, that felt very different than saying, Im sorry. Kelly Corrigan is a New York Times bestselling author whose first children's book, Hello World, is available now. It kind of reminded me though, when I was little, my family used to have these mottos, but the mottos were stuff like, Dont get crumbs on the baby, or Be nice to mom. Kelly Corrigan:Theyre never going to not do that, and thats how theyre going to raise their kids, and that means shes still here. You know, like it wasnt me. If you haven't heard of Father Greg Boyle, let us introduce you: a Jesuit priest who has a touch of Santa Claus in his affect, Greg Boyle has collaborated with thousands of former gang members to build thriving businesses and communities of radical acceptance in East LA. The idea that we just sort of wander around, consume things until we die, like were just a series of small appetites without any deep, rich, meaningful, satisfying connection. So, I grew up with this sentence with my fathers voice in my head saying, Allah Kareem, God is generous., Cheryl:Our family motto is, Dont eat a hamster. Constance Wu also thanks a past educator of hers, Mr. Frizzle. Sadly, our family motto was, Youll pass in a crowd if the crowds big enough. My mothers mother didnt want her to get a swelled head, and she passed that down to us, her four daughters. He had things to do for days, and days, and days, and eulogies to write, and people to hug, and people to thank, and accounts to close, and cars to sell, and he had work to do, both emotional and just literally logistics. You cant only experience deep gratitude at the toenails that you seriously wish someone else would have cut, because seriously, whos doing this around here? I had to make it into a vest to remove it from my body with the tag still on it, you know? (To be fair, Ive loved all that I have listened to). Kelly Corrigan:And so I didnt do it. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Thanks For Being Here Remembering Ryland. Kelly Corrigan:So, she had to call someone and ask them to come over and zip her dress so she could go to the wedding. CW: death of parent, death of friend to cancer. I was wrong not to go visit her. Hopefully youve continued to connect with Kate and Kellys books. She has been called the voice of her generation and the poet laureate of the ordinary, and she is the most perfect person to talk to to kick us off because her lovely new book is called Tell Me More, and Tell me more is one of those phrases she uses, phrases that she writes about that help guide her through relationships, and parenting, and grief. Kate Bowler:Absolutely. Inspiring and thought-provoking interviews conducted by author Kelly Corrigan. You cant live in that. I think people think that if you have a diagnosis, or somethings happened to you that you should know because youre proof of it. In fact Im in the middle of reading both of your books right now. I was wrong not to try to ease her days in some way.. Your email address will not be published. Im like, Yeah, right. Youre giving these beautiful phrases, and each of them feels like a kind of roadmap, and you start with one that really resonated deeply with me. So, I really appreciated the way that you framed the bigness and the smallness of it, because it has to be both. Kelly Corrigan:I know, me too. That sounds really right to me. For what Ive just seen in the last six months, I should be different. Okay, great. Kelly Corrigan is the best-selling author of "Tell Me More: Stories about the 12 Hardest Things I'm Learning to Say," and a proud graduate of the University of Richmond. Sometimes, were just lacking a bit of language. Kate Bowler:Wow, and thats a big word. I end up saying to my therapy clients, to my friends, and to my daughter both Change is hard and the stage-specific version of CIH, Middles are awful. Middles are awful: we have to either find language for an ambiguous state or give up on finding it: hard, sweaty work. A phrase that I heard at a recent Pecha Kucha talk from a woman who had come through a terrible health crisis was Its like this now. Over 50 & Flourishing with Dominique Sachse. Kelly Corrigan Wonders Weekly series started Oct. 4, 2020. Thats where relationship lives is in these tiny moments, and whether you are cognizant of that and tuned into that channel all the time, or not, that is the story of a relationship. Kelly Corrigan:Well you know, its so funny. She's really just an overall great human being. Kelly Corrigan:Youre feeling like ABC, not DEF. So thats the beauty of it. Describing the middle school drama teacher as the first person who believed in her, she imparts her gratitude for him coming to her defense as a young student. You dont have to bring it all. I have watched every episode on PBS and cannot get enough of the show Mrs Corrigan!!! Kelly also hosts her own podcast Kelly Corrigan Wonders, which she describes as a "place for people who like to laugh while they think." On the podcast, she tackles a different question every month in a series of weekly conversations with some of her favorite thinkers. She lives in Philly and I live in California. You know, I honestly think I only say Im sorry, and not, I was wrong. I think I might try it. I was also living only maybe 10 miles from my very old grandma who lived alone, and I kept kind of meaning to go visit her, but its a lot easier to show up at work every day at the United Way, and get kind of righteous about all the people who work for money versus the rest of us who are working for the greater good, than it is to go to your grandmas smelly, weird apartment, and have weird conversations with an 88-year old, you know? We had several hamsters in one cage, and they can be cannibalistic, and one morning a hamster was missing, and another hamster had a suspiciously large tummy. Id love to hear more about what this means to you. Ask the dancers, and the athletes, the painters, and musicians. Take care, I didnt do it. Maybe Wills curious phrase, Its like this, applies here too. Yeah. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Im coming. I went into this tiny bathroom in Baltimore in our office building, and just cried my eyes out, and it wasnt even because she died. Its not in my family. Kate Bowler:Yeah. Theyre poking for that critical difference to hold on to, and I wanna hug em, and say, I know. Kelly Corrigan:Where you can feel the person kind of asking around, snooping just enough, and its not for your sake. So, todays conversation is about developing language to move us forward when life is well, chronic. May you find Christ, comfort, and companions amidst the questions! Okay, but Im just telling you those kids are waking up every day without her, and theyre going to keep being without her forever. Kelly Corrigan:And thats the truth. Labels like chronic illness, or caregiver, or widow, or mom of a kid with special needs. 5:55. I think earn is such a good word, because youre talking about such a complicated math. Best, Kate Bowler:My life doesnt exactly fit into neat categories anymore. Many of you listen to Kelly Corrigan who WFS brought to Charlotte in October 2021. Ten days before I was scheduled to defend my dissertation, English Policies, Curricular Reform and Teacher Development in Multilingual, Post-colonial Djibouti, I got the call. She's an author. I went to see her one time. Adjust the colors to reduce glare and give your eyes a break. To learn more about Tell Me More: Stories about the 12 Things Im Learning to Say, click here. Its going to be great. I mean, I remember thinking, when I wasnt sure, when I was in an especially tough moment of illness, every time I would look at Zachs nails I would think, Is this what wouldve happened if I hadnt been here to do this? The ambiguity is quite isolating. What do we do when the labels were given arent necessarily the ones we choose for ourselves? The Best Show with Tom Scharpling. I found that instructive. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. We can remove the first video in the list to add this one. Kilpy Its what I said to my grad school colleague when she asked me if I planned to go into academia after we graduated. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah, and theres forgiveness and acceptance kind of intertwined there that you know, youre going to forget. This is me writing a letter to Liz, and I wrote the whole thing, and I cried my eyes out the whole time I was writing it, and wiping my nose, and blowing my nose, and sitting back down, and Edwards like, You all right? And Im like, Im all right. I think part of why your book is so moving is the way that these sayings crystallize these really big truths about who we are, and also how we should love each other. She plans to give it to her daughter, who graduates from high school in June.. Corrigan and her guests meander with insight and humor toward that inevitable moment when you think, "Exactly!" The Best Show with Tom Scharpling a day ago I was healthy, and then I was sick, and now Im feeling pretty good, and even though the language around immunotherapy isnt perfect, I can happily say that I am in remission. Each episode in Season 5 of "Tell Me More" will leave you hopeful and with a few more tools in your kit to craft the life you want. 5-Minute Listen. You cant live in that. He is also the father to three great characters, including Dixie, who was killed in a head on collision in May of 2021. Kelly Corrigan:Theres a thing Im aware of about eye contact between spouses, and you either make it, or you dont, and once youre aware that thats deeply meaningful, and that it has this kind of almost immeasurable, physiological effect on the other person, then you make an effort to look them in the eye, and that seems like such a small thing, but its actually definitional in terms of your relationship, in terms of whether its a good day, or a bad day, or a good interaction, or a bad interaction. Michael Lewis sends his thanks to Dr. Arthur White, a former history teacher at Isidore Newman School in New Orleans, Louisiana, for kicking him in class whenever hed fall asleep. Were just a series of days and interactions. This is the way this has to be, and its right there. I said, No, I just want to go back to Vietnam and do what I was doing. Your mantra is fantastic and is sounds like it has served you well through the years! You've just tried to add this show to My List. Each episode ends with a special Plus One segment, in which guests are invited to thank those that have supported them along their journey. You could do worse than to live by that one. Then the ocean with its waves so vast, impossible to touch bottom, then a maze, then a mountain, then seasons, a natural disaster. Alex, The successes of independent and feminist Marie Antoinette provoke jealousy and rivalry. My son was, of course, distraught and felt the dog was a part of the family and worth the trouble. I was wrong not to try to ease her days in some way.. with Kelly Corrigan When bestselling author Kelly Corrigan experienced the death of her dad and dear friend back-to-back, she couldn't shake the feeling that she wasn't living as gratefully as she wanted to. I didnt engage with her. You might actually give somebody a chance to discover whats really bothering them, and in that discovery they might find their own solution, but the fact is that if you can bite your stupid tongue, and get over yourself, and just keep eliciting their whole story, then the next thing you know, their mood is changing, and theyre feeling more solution-oriented, and then they get the buzz of solving the problem. Just do your best. A witty, insightful podcast in search of the big "Yes!" The gap between being inspired and entertained just got smaller. We should hold hands for a moment, as a way of marking the glory of a family dinner, and they do that. In, warm, insightful, often funny conversations, Kate talks with people about what they've. I was wondering if you could tell me about that. We should thank the chef. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. I was wrong, and that is very soothing, but then that took me back to this moment where I had gone to work for United Way after college, because I was going to save the world, and I was this total do-gooder. Both Kate and Kelly are remarkable women and in tandem they make for great listening. Mahra:Ive been singing these lines from a song by the Avett Brothers to my kids for years, and it goes like this. Recently I coined maintain the faith, exit with grace. I do need to be reminded of this often There are only two days in the year that nothing can be done. So, Dont eat a hamster is our version of Dont jump to conclusions.. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. I really appreciate it. Kelly Corrigan:So, my husband worked at a startup in San Francisco, which is called Medium, and its a writing platform, and as a writer, I was welcome to come, and use their office space, and its everything you think a San Francisco startup is. I mean, I remember thinking, when I wasnt sure, when I was in an especially tough moment of illness, every time I would look at Zachs nails I would think, Is this what wouldve happened if I hadnt been here to do this? I mean, maybe I was projecting, maybe whatever he said in that moment, maybe if he had said peanut butter, and jelly, wed be talking about peanut butter and jelly, but it totally resonated for me in the way that a song lyric does where youre like, I dont know what that means exactly, but Im going to write that down, and put it in my wallet, and its interesting. Kate Bowler:Im Kate Bowler, and this is Everything Happens. The idea that we just sort of wander around, consume things until we die, like were just a series of small appetites without any deep, rich, meaningful, satisfying connection. The reach of language can be laughable.. I thoroughly enjoyed your podcast and listening to you both. Simply becauseIts like this or, my current favorite: Its a species behavior., Nan, Kate Bowler:You are someone who has gotten mixed up in all kinds of things, and I am so glad to know you. Kelly Corrigan sits down with Melinda French Gates. I love it that it gives up perfectionism, and it just says, Hey, whats possible today?. I even use it at the end of lectures like, Hey, this is the end of the 19th century. Kelly Corrigan:Yeah. Gratefully, It was the very last thing that I wrote, and you may be able to relate to this, theres always one part of a book that writes itself, at least for me, where its like, I guess Ive been thinking about this long enough, I guess Ive been living this long enough that its all kind of been subconsciously forming, and now Im just about taking dictation here, and thats the way that was. I heard your friend died, and I just couldnt bear to call them back. Kate Bowler:Well, I accept. Maybe you want to borrow one of Kellys like, Its like this, but youre totally welcome to borrow my familys motto: Dont let the turkeys get you down. Its tried and true. So, I was wondering, would you mind reading that beautiful passage you wrote about after Liz died? Hes just one of those people that you think, God, if I could get five minutes with him, Id just tell him my biggest problem, and hed just say something in seven words that would solve everything., Kelly Corrigan:So, eventually I went up to him, and I said, Im caught between these two worlds, this world where Im full of clarity and insight and gratitude, and Im seeing all the big colors of the world. Forever? Claire, Id say that there is definitely such a thing as a questioning Christian. They reel and wander and fixate and roll back and reconsider, because its like this, having a mind. I was in a big, big rush to get in front of him, and say my apology, and be returned to a state of grace, but the fact is that his mom died. Kelly Corrigan:And then she died, and my dad called, and my dad had nothing but positive things to say to me my entire life, and he said, You should have gone to see your grandmother more. Kelly Corrigan:Well, chop-chop kid. Kelly Corrigan:My friend Andy Lotts, who is Lizs husband, told me about it, cause hes a mom now, and so we talk mom talk. Society & Culture English Ryland shined brightly - especially in the darkest places. One is called Yesterday and the other is called Tomorrow. Kelly kicks off a new series on BELIEF, delving into topics like the meaning of life, finding purpose, why faith, service and gratitude matter, and more with Dr. MIchael Murray, former Philosophy Professor and current President & CEO of the Arthur Vining Davis Foundations . Join New York Times bestselling author Kelly Corrigan as she choreographs big-ideas conversations and personal truth-telling with some of the creative thinkers and artists who define our time. I just want to show up and try to be of use. Then cancer hit. Then I wanted to get right with him, and urgently. P.S. Thanks for sharing your personal motto. Kellys guest is actress and author Constance Wu - you may know her from her roles in the breakthrough tv show Fresh Off the Boat and the blockbuster film Crazy, Rich Asians. Best, This is the way this has to be, and its right there. Kate Bowler:I do think people offer certainties when they think that youre proof of something that scares them, and they cant just live in the uncertainty of not knowing for a minute. Such is a reminder that success is the result of joined efforts and that all of us are touched by the ripples of others contributions. As Teri said, He didnt have a drug problem, he had a life problem. Kate Bowler:Words matter. By creating an account, you acknowledge that PBS may share your information with our member stations and our respective service providers, and that you have read and understand the Privacy Policy and Terms of Use. She died this morning, and I was just sick to my stomach. Kelly Corrigan:So, I used to go in there and write, and they have a meditation teacher twice a day at 10:00 AM and 3:00 PM, and at first I was sort of sheepish about availing myself of every single employee benefit, but sure enough, eventually I found myself sitting in there, and this guy was kind of amazing. Kelly Corrigan:You know, that I had lost his favor for a moment, and I was just so ashamed. Kelly Corrigan:Like, almost every time Im sure that if you just let me take over, I can make this problem go away. Kate Bowler:Yeah. We should thank the chef. Find me online at @KateCBowler, and Id love to hear what you think of this episode. All moments, days, chapters are transitory and the good ones leave us as do the bad ones. Its the only way to keep the last bit of sanity. Together, Kate and Kelly explore the phrases we cling to in order to find deeper connection and meaning during difficult times. So much of what you both say resonates for me. Im so compassionate to that thing that happens every time you tell someone that you had cancer, which is the other person trying to figure out why its not going to happen to them as fast as possible. Kate Bowler:Today, I get a chance to talk to Kelly about some of her very best phrases. I guess everybody here, these children of mine and my husband, are just too damn busy to get on this, but Im not, so Ill do it, and then I was finishing, and I found a little pile of cut toenails on my kitchen table, and that. Kelly Corrigan:I never came up with any combination that came close to the feeling. Im sorry to ask about the hard part, but would you mind telling me what happened? She reflects on her love and loss through ordinary moments and everyday sayings. Team Everything Happens, Hi Kate, So, maybe when life is chronic, we all need some sayings to anchor us, our very own mottos that guide us through. Kelly Corrigan:And Im getting to walk with them way longer on their road, and I felt this sense that I could never possibly deserve that, that Im not that great a person, or a mom. She had ovarian cancer, so she had fought it for seven years, and it was the kind of thing where I felt like I urgently wanted to deserve my life.
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